regards,

ben

We will probably disagree on the definitions of atheist. I think “A” theist means no belief in God, or without belief, not, as some Christians like to label me, “one who thinks he knows there is no God”.

As for “Why should I become a Christian”? I honestly had no idea what reason you would give. That is the first time I have ever asked a Christian that question.

Nothing you have said makes me “angry.” I usually don’t get angry while dialoguing with people. I may get impatient, discouraged, or hurt, but I stay pretty much calm. I took no offence in anything you said above. I just think you are mistaken in much of it. But, as I said, we can just leave it at that if you want, or feel free to email me what you posted above and I will dedicate some time over the next week responding.
Thanks for your time.

bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com

Can I ask you a question? - Can you give me one, and only one “reason” why I should become a Christian? Only one, and make it the most important reason please.”

Ok, you’re an agnostic, which means you “don’t know” (a = not, gnosis = to know). You called yourself an atheist, that literally means “No God”. I would suggest that for you to say you are an “atheist” then, is not accurate.

You ask “why should you become a Christian”. That is a good question. I could simply say what you probably expect me to say and that is “To stay out of Hell”. But that isn’t the ultimate reason. The ultimate reason is that honoring the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on your behalf would glorify God. It would glorify him forever, and that is what you were created for.

There is a “gospel” out there that doesn’t convert anyone. Becoming a Christian is a literal rebirth. It isn’t just saying you agree with something about Jesus and then praying a prayer. That is not the gospel. I know you don’t like to hear that your conversion may not have been genuine, but I have been there. What I have is real now. It shows itself as real by the changes in my life. And it is lasting. Paul said in Philippians that “He that began a good work in you WILL CONTINUE TO PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ”. If it doesn’t last, it wasn’t real. In 1 John, the apostle John says “They went out from us (defected) because they weren’t of us”. That is a false conversion. Get angry if you want. Deny it if you want. That isn’t me making the judgment call, but God’s Word.

Just before my conversion 10 years ago, and after I “fell away”, I would have been angry at anyone who said I wasn’t a genuine Christian. But I wasn’t. I know that now. And perhaps God let me go through that for such a time as this where I can share that with you. But there are false converts. They are all over the place.

I would warn you most strongly, Bob, to repent of your unbelief. Once you know the true Gospel (you have heard Way of the Master) and decide to reject it, there comes a time when God’s gavel falls and you are confirmed in your unbelief and there is no turning back.

God WILL judge you and the Ten Commandments are His standard. He will look at you from “His side of the bench” and find you have broken all ten of them (Not keeping God in first place, worshiping a god of your own making (idolatry), Taking his name in vain, not honoring your parents (ever disobeyed them or caused them shame?), murder (Jesus said even hating someone is the same as murder, in the heart), Adultery? (Jesus said lust is the same as adultery), Stolen (regardless of how small the object or how long ago?), lied?, Coveted?

If you have ever broken one bit of any of those commandments, God will find you guilty. And you can’t pay the penalty yourself and go free. You will be condemned forever. But Jesus paid it for you by bearing the penalty of God’s wrath for you. And the only way to “pass the test” on judgment day is to have the righteousness of Jesus Christ credited to your account.

You say you “don’t know” if there is a God. God wants you to trust Him. Hebrews says that “those who come to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him”. For “without faith, it is impossible to please God”. Do you want proof? There is no faith where proof is present.

But you have said you’d listen to historical evidence. Ok, read Pliny the Younger. read Josephus, read Tacitus, read the evidence from the Babylonian Talmud, Read Lucian. These are all SECULAR sources that testify to the life of Jesus. Also, read the BIBLE. Yes, I said the BIBLE. Archeology has confirmed the accuracy of the scriptures, not contradicted it. People have been converted to Christianity as a result of trying to DISPROVE it. Read Luke. The first verses tell you it was written so “you can be sure” of what happened when Jesus walked here. Luke said “it seemed good to me also, following all things accurately from the very first, to write to you in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you might know the certainty of those things in which you have been instructed.”

Luke wrote his Gospel as an historical account, so we may be sure of what we have learned. That was his whole purpose!

Again, you’ve heard the Gospel. You know the facts. My prayer for you, in all sincerity Bob, is that you will take my warning to heart.

I can do no more for you than that. No test tubes, nothing. You know the Gospel. You’ve heard Way of the Master. I pray that the Lord will open the eyes of your heart that you may see what you are rejecting, as He did me so many years ago.

As for not wanting you to mention the bible, where did I say that? I have no problem with anyone quoting from the bible, but the quoter must understand that I, as a non believer, do not consider the bible to have any authority over me. But please, feel free to quote from the bible all you want, just be prepared to have me critique the quotes. But I must ask, even if I did say that I didn’t want you to mention the bible, how would that be dishonest of me? I don’t get that at all.

As for atheists claiming that there is “No God”, I disagree. I do not think very many atheists actually claim that they know that there is absolutely no God anywhere. As for myself, I simply state that, based on the available evidence, and from my own observations during my life, I have concluded that there is no God. But just like any honest observer, I am open to persuasion, based on scientific and historical evidence. So, I do not, as you say, claim that there is no God. I simply have concluded, for now, that I do not believe there is any God.
Now, if you think that means I am agnostic, fine. Feel free to label me as you please, but if anyone asks me what I am, concerning religion, I say I am an atheist.

Can I ask you a question? - Can you give me one, and only one “reason” why I should become a Christian? Only one, and make it the most important reason please.

In case anyone is curious how or why an atheist came here to comment, my girlfriend is a Christian. I used to go to church with her every Sunday, even though I am an atheist. I went for about a year. I went for one reason: if I was going to get to spend time with her on Sunday, I would have to go to church. I stopped because I felt it was not fair for me, in our relationship, to have to sit in church every single Sunday if I wanted to spend time with her. She still goes….I go off and enjoy my Sundays alone now.
Anyway, her pastor has a website, and I visit it from time to time just to see what he has preached about. He had a link to this blog, so I visited and commented. That’s it.

bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com

God is so good!!!! This is an awesome testimony, if I had the time I would add to Pete’s story. You see Pete is my dad. I have prayed for him for years, this is proof that God answers prayer. If we are faithful and stand firm in our beliefs, God will do his part. I was in church with dad on February the 10th, it was great to see him in God’s house. I know that God has a plan for each and every one of us, talk to him, and when he talks back to you, listen. Chris, Thanks for taking your time with my dad……

You say you want an honest discussion, but you don’t want me to mention the Bible. That doesn’t sound very honest.

Here’s an honest question: You say you are an atheist. In other words “No God”. In order to say that, wouldn’t you have to have the sum total of all knowledge? To compare, what would you think of me if I said “There is absolutely no gold on Mars”? Wouldn’t you think I didn’t have enough knowledge of Mars to say that? Yet you say that here is “no God”….

I don’t mean to be rude. I just get impatient when people use “tactics” on me. I would much rather openly and honestly discuss our differences than have someone attempt to lead me like a child. Did you not read my comment above where I stated I was a bible believer for 25 years? Don’t you think I might remember some, if not most of what I believed and why?

It is obvious that you have completely disregarded everything I said in my thoughtful responses above, because you have absolutely nothing to say in response. All you do is, as it seems, move from each step, 1, 2, 3, and ask another leading question. That shows me that do not have enough respect for me, as a person, to actually comment on my comments. I write a paragraph, you ignore it and write a sentence. All you have succeeded in doing is making me feel as if my comments are not worth considering by you. Am I surprised?, no. This is what I get from the vast majority of believers I come in contact with on the web. If they are not insulting me outright, they do it by just ignoring what I have to say. I get that attitude from ministers to laymen.

bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com