This is Pete.
Pete has smoked since he was teenager.
Pete struggled most of his life with alcohol.
Pete used to shoot people when he’d get angry.
Pete spent 15 years behind bars.
Pete has cancer…a bunch of cancer.
Pete has been given only a few months to live.
Pete has a tattoo on his leg that says “Hell Bound”.
Pete won’t be going there.
Pete came to know Jesus two weeks ago.
Pete was baptized today.
RAMBLINGS OF A FORMER STREET PASTOR 
81 responses to “Pete…”
Chris,
VERY COOL!!!
Ray
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Praise God!
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Chris,
This is what the gospel is all about. No-one can go beyond the grace and love of GOD. Christ is wonderful.
This is what I have been praying for Compass point, not the usual round of church hoppers taking up attendance, but changed lives from the local community.
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Your best post ever!
This is what it’s all about.
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AWESOME ! Welcome to the family Pete, see you there.
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Chris, this is an awesome story!
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rejoicing with you all, this is awesome…it’s what God does best!
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Kinda makes it all worth while huh.
Great News…Welcome to the family Pete!
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By far the best blog post I’ve read all year!! Thanks!
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How awasone is our GOD. Truly amazing. All the best for Pete.
Ela Ortega
Life-Pointe Church
Homestead, Fl
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Wow! What a testimony!! Praise God!
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Chris,
NewSpring is celebrating, as the angels are certainly doing in heaven, Pete’s salvation, God’s abundant love, and the glory your ministry is bringing to Him.
Yea God!!!
Yea Compass Point!!!
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Thanks for sharing Chris! That’s what it’s all about…
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Praise Him! That’s so awesome! Do appreciate you sharing. 🙂
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Chris,
This is your best post ever!
From your Lutheran friend,
Rich
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Awesome!! The tattoo no longer is relevant!! My wife lost her father last year–one year ago–to cancer. 3 months before he died, his brother-in-law, a retired Mennonite Pastor, led him to Christ. It’s wonderful to know she will meet her dad in Heaven.
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That warms my heart! God works miracles and Pete if proof of that! Thank you for sharing this beautiful story.
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AWESOME!
Welcome to the family Pete!
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This is what its all about. I love seeing odds defied, statistics broken, and lives come to Jesus. I’d love to meet this guy!!
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I think you got the wrong picture posted beside Pete’s name, before it gets clicked.
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Praise God.
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So the guy that’s shot people is going to heaven because someone dunked him in a pool, but I’m going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity because I have premarital sex, don’t hate gay people, and don’t happen to believe in God (even though I dedicate my life to peace, love, and non-profit charity work)?
Ooooookaye.
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This story makes me proud to be an atheist.
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Awesome.
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Rock on with Jesus, Pete. You are going to know a freedom like never before.
As for the peeps out there who are worried about going to hell versus Pete going to heaven, Jesus doesn’t condemn you. He totally loves you, extravagantly. Probably hopes that you would stop trying to find happiness in fleeting things but He loves you and cares for you beyond your wildest dreams. I’m not a saint, in fact I’m a struggling addict. I’ve been around. But I have tasted true joy in my relationship with Jesus. I hope you’ll taste it one day, too.
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really great.
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Chris, I may not always agree with everything you say or do…but your heart and passion truly touches me. You care about people. You see past flaws and see the person. Your heart inspires me and rocks me to the core. thank you.
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This is awesome, i’m trying to think of a witty way to cover up that Tattoo, but his new body in heaven won’t need it.
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It’s people like kendallmck and gardenqueen and me that Jesus died on the cross for. I pray that someday before they leave this world they will realize the awesome love of our God. Pete realized that he needed forgiveness for his sins. And by the way sin is sin. There are no degrees of sin. Sin is anything that separates us from God’s love. Copping an attitude and thinking you are so cool (I took a quick look at Kendallmck site and I do mean Quick) is not the answer. At some point we all will have to face the consequences of our actions.
I was there when Pete was baptised yesterday and his first words coming out to the cold water was he was ready to do it again. The cleasning feels awesome. He came out of the water a new man. I was a real struggle for Pete to get into the water. But he took the steps slow and let God wash away all the sin. Praise God!!
We are praying for God to heal Pete. Our God can do that. And the thing of it is that Pete knows he will be healed, if not in this world, when he goes home to meet Jesus.
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“Copping an attitude and thinking you are so cool (I took a quick look at Kendallmck site and I do mean Quick) is not the answer.”
Haha, yes. A “quick” look, but be sure to avert your saintly eyes! On my blog you will find swears, progressivism, and posts advocating basic human rights and equality for women. Oh noes!
Yes. Blogging about women’s liberation and global oppression is totally “copping an attitude and thinking you are so cool.” How many cool points do I get for breaking the story that religious doctors in Canada are refusing to provide unmarried women with life-saving Pap smears? Wow, Christians are looking better and better.
Good for Pete for turning his life around, no matter how he did it. Boo for self-righteous religious folk that believe you can behave as lousy as you want for however long you want and will go to heaven as long as you manage to “accept Jesus” before you die, and that God is totally down with hating anybody that is different than you (gay, Atheist, progressive etc.).
Does anybody else see a problem with this logic?
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awesome
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Welcome to the family, Pete. God bless you abundantly!
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I don’t get it.
I have never shot anyone.
I have no tattoos.
I have never in all my 50+ years used an illegal drug.
I tried smoking when I was 10. That lasted a week.
I don’t struggle with alcohol, but do drink a tiny bit.
I have never been to prison.
But because I just can not find it within myself to believe in your God, I am going to hell?
Please tell me where the justice is in that. Please tell me where the justice is in a person who lives a decent life, going to hell when he dies just because he doesn’t believe in your God, and then tell me the justice of a person who makes a bunch of bad decisions his whole life, going to hell when he dies, just because he doesn’t believe in your God.
The point is, there is no justification for a hell, for anyone.
No thanks.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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Kendallmck,
Let me be the first to say that I’m glad you’re reading this blog. It shows that you’re curious about a relationship with Jesus, no matter how skeptical you may be.
Jesus made friends with the outcasts and the “sinners” of His time. That’s why the people that were considered “religious” in Jesus’ time looked down their spiritual noses at Him. He went to parties, hung out with pimps, prostitutes, and tax collectors, because He had a passion for reaching the lost. As Christ Followers (Christians) we should do the same.
If there has ever been a time in your life where you have been discriminated against by people who profess to be Christians, then I as a Christian apologize for their behavior. I may not have all the theological answers, but I do know that on September 9, 2001, Jesus changed my life for eternity and I have eternal peace because of it.
If you have any more questions about God, Jesus, Church, or whatever, please shoot me an email. If I can’t answer it I will find someone who can.
Tldl01@yahoo.com
Praise Jesus!
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Wow, Chris. That’s a great story…
as noted in the post before mine, these stories are what continue to draw people to the Spirit of God and send people running the other direction from religion. I’m so excited for Pete, and just as excited for Bob who is asking the right questions.
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Bob, it’s not about justice. It’s about living your life with a relationship with our true father. By not acknologing HIM as your savior then you don’t get saved. Simple as that.
Some of the most decent living people in the world will not get to heaven and that bother’s me too but that is the consequence you CHOOSE to make.
Living a “good life” in not the key to getting into heaven.\
Great blog. loved the story. I was just baptised a few weeks ago also.
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It’s been a cynical week out there on the blogosphere, but this softened my heart instantly. Amen brother, and halelujah! I can imagine the ex-criminal who believed in Jesus as they were hanging from the crosses next to each other smiling at this from up above 🙂
To those who disagree with God accepting Pete into His heaven – think about it this way, after a lifetime of broken living, Pete has determined to turn his life around, no matter how short a time he has left. Isn’t that a positive thing?
Even if religion is a lie as you believe, at least in this case it motivated a bad man to want to be good. How often has atheism accomplished that with its logic and rationality?
And note that I said ‘His heaven’. It’s God’s place after all, so of course to gain entry you’d have to follow His rules – first and foremost of all believing in Jesus’ offer of salvation.
You can take hell to mean where God isn’t at, which is how some interpretations understand it.
Hell, If I Know
So if you like the Christian God and want to obey Him for eternity, you go to heaven where He is. And if you don’t, you go to the place where He isn’t. What’s to object about this arrangement from a logical point of view (which atheists pride themselves upon)?
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Wow. To God be the glory!
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Awesome and succinct post. Mind if I add it to my blog?
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YES !!!!!
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inspiring. thanks.
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–Boo for self-righteous religious folk that believe you can behave as lousy as you want for however long you want and will go to heaven as long as you manage to “accept Jesus” before you die,–
There is the account of a man who was being crucified alongside Jesus, who with probably only a few hours left to live and no chance of doing any kind of ‘good work’ before then could only ask Jesus to remember him when He entered His kingdom. Jesus did not demand anything of the man, but promised him that on that day he would be with Him in Paradise.
It must be scandalous, to know that those like that thief are allowed to enter, while those who try to impress with resumes are not.
Pharisees comes in all kinds of religious and non-religious garbs. A person does not have to religious to be self-righteous, and the fact that you are sitting as judge of someone like Pete (and of God for forgiving and accepting Pete) shows that.
But there is forgiveness, even for the self-righteous non-religious. Stop sitting as judge and jury, and come to God in humility and repentence.
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WWWWOOOOOOWWW!!! Awesome story. Pulling people out of hell and into Heaven!!!
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Here is a comment I got from one of your “loving Christians.” How do I know it was from someone from this site? Because every hit on my blog yesterday was referred to from this page. She sure uses pure and Godly language!
Jan_Hanson Says:
February 26. 2008 at 2:06 pm edit
You are a freaking Moron I hope that you get an STD and die you lesbo maybe today in a favor to the world you will get hit by a bus.
Wow. Homophobic hate language, sexual threats, and wishing death on a non-profit charity worker. I am SO feeling Jesus’ love! Also, do Christians, like, not believe in punctuation or something? Is there something in the Bible forbidding the use of periods, commas, and proper capitalization?
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kendallmck,
You are correct, the Bible is very clear that this person cannot be a Christian and say such hateful things. “No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.” (1 John 3:6-10 ESV)
I’m sorry that there are people out there who think they can do whatever they want and still be saved. You know inherently what they don’t. Just don’t let dishonest and wicked people who claim to be Christians keep you from obtaining the gift of eternal life for yourself. Christians aren’t perfect, but they certainly aren’t hatreful or wicked either. That’s why Jesus said “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I NEVER knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ (Matthew 7:22-23 ESV)
God bless and help you find your way to faith kendallmck! He loves you more than you can imagine! And we who are truly Christ’s cannot condemn you, but only pray for and love you.
God bless Pete, too! I hope he truly believes and continues in his belief. Jesus is powerful to save, but only if we come to him with honest and humble hearts.
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Ms. kendallmck…you are being prayed for. May God bless you and meet you right where you are…and may you open your heart to the immense love he has for you and His free gift of salvation! :o)
You seem like an intellectual person…may I recommend a book I believe would spark your interest. It is written by an athiest lawyer/journalist for the Wall street journal…who took several years off to disprove Christ/the Bible/God. What he found is the truth….and he wrote a book about it. I hope you take the time to read…it didn’t begin my faith…but it helped to bolster what I already knew through my faith in Jesus. Its called “The Case for Christ”. by Lee Strobel. And…it was written by someone who was where you are in life when he began…a non-Christian. Hope you enjoy! :o)
God bless and lots of Love! Shanna
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Kendallmck,
Another interesting resource is ‘Mere Christianity’ by C.S.Lewis. He too left the faith at a young age, became an athiest. Too many unanswered questions drove him back to the real source – Christ. MC serves to explore some of these questions.
In his book he addresses the subject you brought up – That there are counterfeit Christians. He makes the valid point though – “If I show you a stack of counterfeit $100 bills, does that mean you’re going to throw out all your legitimate cash, just because counterfeits exist? Probably not – Finding counterfeit money does not
discredit the existence of real money.” The same would be true of Christians.
Nate.
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So much for the Friendly atheist…..
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Great testimony!
Would be even better to hear and read his whole testimony! That way it may help some of the people with comments about their filthy righteousness/ good deeds…
You see it doesnt matter how good or bad you are, we all are sinners (missing the mark of Gods righteousness – perfect). The difference between Pete and the others is not the sin but rather what they did with their sin….
Pete admitted he was wrong and God was right and that is what saved him, its the same for the prematerial sex person, person who has told a few ‘white’ lies etc
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“An exellent post on a good blog, you can make some money with your blog, like me at http://blogmakemoney2.blogspot.com“
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Kendallmck, there are also nonChristian readers and commentors on this blog post. Could it not have been one of them playing the sock-puppet and seeking to smear Christians?
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kendallmck, I would strongly suggest that Scott is right. Just because someone visits this blog then goes to yours is no indication that the person is a Christian.
Such an attack as you recount is contrary to that of a true Christian. NWProdigal quoted the right verse for this situation; the one who bears such rotten “fruit” betrays themself as a phony. And I would add that I, as a Christian and a blogger, have been assaulted by those who would say they are “Christians” but bear no evidence as such.
Praying for you,
Tim
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Dear everybody,
Thank you for your kind comments. However, I am writing to respectfully ask that you stop saying to me:
a) God bless you
b) I’m praying for you
c) anything else that otherwise suggests that I don’t know what I’m talking about and will someday “see the light” and come to find your religion.
Things like this, no matter how sweet you think they are, are offensive, disrespectful, and hurtful. How would you feel if everywhere you went people said “praise Satan!” or “Allah loves you” or even “thank you, and have a Godless day.” Saying “God bless you” or “may you find God” to an Atheist, especially one that has clearly been oppressed her entire life for these beliefs, is condescending, rude and mean. I don’t agree with your beliefs, but I respect them and would never say anything to try to convince you to believe otherwise. Atheists aren’t out there trying to convert Christians – we’re simply trying to get you to LEAVE US ALONE.
Walk a mile in someone’s shoes. Try it.
And by the way, saying “oh that person isn’t really a Christian,” when faced with people doing things that are not exactly Christ-like, isn’t an excuse. Every time I discuss s**tty (see, I’m even censoring my potty mouth for your blog) things that Christians do, other Christians, without fail, brush it off by saying “well they’re not REALLY Christian.” Those people THINK they ARE Christians, so they are. Christianity is a state of mind – if you say you’re Christian, I have every right to consider you a Christian, and consequently every right to criticize the religion if said person is using it to justify being an a**h***. None of you are the authority on what is Christian and what isn’t – that’s the admitted genius of religion – so none of you have the capability to deem others “Christian” or “non-Christian.” If I’m not mistaken, the only person who can do that is Jesus, and, uh, he ain’t around.
Take responsibility for your religion. It’s not the Atheists’ fault that Christianity has a bad name – it’s the Christians’.
Oh, and the folks suggesting that an Atheist came to my blog and wrote offensive and hurtful things to smear Christianity are…special. Wow. I’ve never seen people so unwilling to admit to the possibility of imperfection. I think everyone knows what most likely happened, and that fact that you’re so resistant to admit it is very, very telling, and very, very sad.
Discussions like this push me further and further into faithlessness. You people just. don’t. get. it. I’d say “thanks for listening,” but I don’t think most of you are. So, uh…thanks for your time.
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kendallmck:
Our “religion” teaches that true conversion changes the life. Jesus said that on the day of judgment “many will say unto me Lord, Lord” and He (Jesus) will say “Depart from me you who practice lawlessness”. This isn’t a cop out, it is a statement of theological fact. It’s what Jesus and the apostles taught. Real converts are new creatures and behave differently.
As far as placing the attack against you on an atheist, I didn’t say anything about an atheist…did someone else?
Your original comment was about this man going to heaven because he got dunked in some water. That is not what we believe at all.
This man’s acceptance into heaven is predicated (first of all) on having become aware of his sinful state before a Holy God, just like the rest of us. We’ve all broken God’s ten commandments by lying, stealing, lusting, not honoring our parents. We came to know that we are guilty before a Holy God who must judge sin as any Earthly judge would…and we know we can’t pay the penalty for our sin.
But in this case, the Judge (Jesus) came to die and thus pay the penalty for us. He now commands everyone to repent. So, we must repent and put our trust in Christ alone as you would trust a parachute.
I appreciate you noticing that we have commented kindly toward you. But I would ask you to take some time to do as all true Christians have; take a look at yourself in light of God’s law. It is a mirror. It shows us how we fall short of God’s standard. This isn’t being offered you to offend you but because it is what you need the most — to see yourself as God sees you.
Perfect? No. I’m not perfect and I would expect all others here who name Christ as Savior and Lord would admit that they are imperfect too. But I am aware of my problems and I know I need to trust Christ. It is a daily battle.
Jesus Christ came to Earth 2000 years ago. He died on a Cross to satisfy the Father’s wrath at sin, He was buried and rose again on the third day. This is an historical reality.
Don’t let your misconceptions of Christianity stop you from looking reality in the face. This isn’t a game we are playing.
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This is a great post! Although I didn’t do the things he did before his conversion, I was rapidly spiraling downhill in my unbelief. I was into all kinds of garbage. My life was a cesspool. In my heart I know that I was so thoroughly sinful before God. BUT. In His mercy He reached down and tapped me on the shoulder and changed my life. Because someone preached at me? No. Because I heard some “Christian music”? No. I was alone. God worked directly in my life to bring an awareness of sin and the need for repentance.
Ten years later, I still deal with guilt over my past from time to time. But this serves to remind me that our God is a God who redeems sinners like me.
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Tim, you said: “Don’t let your misconceptions of Christianity stop you from looking reality in the face”.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here. For me, from my perspective, I have no “misconception” of what Christianity is. Christianity can be plainly viewed in the lives of those who profess to be Christians.
I was a bible believer for 25 years, until 8 years ago. Half my life. The first half of my Christian experience was spent in several different churches ranging from Southern Baptist, Independent Fundamental Baptist, Wesleyan, and Presbyterian, then back to Southern Baptist. The last half of my Christian experience was spent away from church. I became very disillusioned with modern organized Christianity, mainly because of the lack of (what I felt was needed in the church) total surrender to Christ. We used to call it “the deeper life”.
Anyway, I have no misconceptions of what Christianity is. All I have to do was look around to see what it is. And what it is, is simply millions of people who believe in the Christian God. That is it.
As a former believer (atheist) now, I know hundreds of Christians. My girlfriend is a Christian. Many of the people I associate with are Christians. Most do not know I am an atheist. Never will.
The difference I see between most Christians and myself, is very little. We both obey the laws, help people, eat, sleep, work, and in general, just led “normal” lives until we get sick and die. I do not see, nor have I ever seen, in the lives of any of the thousands of Christians I have known, any evidence of a supernatural God acting in their lives. Absolutely none. I have been treated well by atheists and Christians alike. I have been treated bad by atheists and Christians alike, though I am acquainted with far fewer atheists than Christians.
My point is, when I “look reality in the face”, as you implore kendallmck to do, all I see is most people believing in something that I do not, and I see nothing in their lives or attitudes that conveys to me that they have something I should want or need.
So, again I say no. I have looked Christianity over pretty thoroughly, from the inside and now from the outside. I have read the bible through and through. There is nothing in it that convinces me that it is true. I have met many Christians, some were horrible, mean, selfish people, in their attitudes toward those who may disagree with them. I have met some who are kind and considerate. All of this reflects society in general. People are different. I see no evidence of any supernatural being doing anything in any of the Christians I am familiar with, past or present.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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bob:
would you consider yourself to be a “good person”?
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Good post Chris, praise God!
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Bob,
Perhaps you never truly believed? And a lot of the people you met never did either. God changes people! If that is not your experience then you have either met a lot of goats who think they’re sheep or you were just too judgmental to accept that no one is perfect. The fact you may never have truly believed and that you reject false Christianity is actually a good sign. It’s a sign that you really do want to know the truth; you’ve just given up on finding it because you look at people and not the Lord.
I was the reverse of you. I rejected Christianity after being raised in a church that made me feel like I was never good enough for heaven. Oh, they certainly demanded perfection….even taught it, but could never produce it; at least not with love. I went 25 years away from the faith until God woke me up to the utter pointlessness a life without Christ is. I finally learned how to have faith in God and His Word, not what a man says the Bible says, but what God plainly says. Please realize that your dissatisfaction and anger against hypocrisy is a good thing. You reject these lies and I’ll bet you still want the truth. Being an atheist just means you want it to all “go away”. It won’t.
“Christians” who don’t show love and concern for others, especially when it inconveniences them and isn’t comfortable for them, just prove you’re right. They have nothing even while they think they do (Take care then how you hear, for to the one who has, more will be given, and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away.” (Luke 8:18 ESV) “Christians” who hate, lie, steal and cheat on their wives (including porn) and taxes will NOT inherit eternal life (Galatians 5:19-21) unless they truly repent (stop doing those things).
Just don’t let any of them keep you from obtaining immortality yourself.
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Thank you for saving me the trouble of responding to that, Bob. And thank you for your insightful comments. You’re clearly more patient than I am.
Man, the excuses self-righteousness are just palatable here. A Christian is being judgmental and mean? Well, they’re not REALLY Christian! A Christian-turned-Atheist? Well, you never REALLY believed! It’s beginning to look like people are convinced that the only “true” Christians are themselves. This presents a problem, no?
Jesus Christ came to Earth 2000 years ago. He died on a Cross to satisfy the Father’s wrath at sin, He was buried and rose again on the third day. This is an historical reality.
Wrong again!
But I would ask you to take some time to do as all true Christians have; take a look at yourself in light of God’s law. It is a mirror. It shows us how we fall short of God’s standard. This isn’t being offered you to offend you but because it is what you need the most — to see yourself as God sees you.
I don’t believe in God, and I don’t believe in “God’s law” as put forth in the Bible, so this is an impossible task. Oh, and This isn’t being offered you to offend you but because it is what you need the most IS OFFENSIVE. Don’t tell me what I need.
Wooftie! I could go on, but I’m exhausted from a long, hard day, and I’m sure everyone is as tired of battling me as I am of them. I feel a slight twinge of guilt for somewhat bogarting this post and taking the attention of this Pete guy, who I still, for the record, am proud of, and I’m certainly not about to say anything bad about someone with terminal cancer. I do find it interesting (again) though, that one can live the way they want for their entire life but be promised the express route to heaven for repenting on their death bed – but that’s another post.
Thanks for keepin’ it interesting, folks!
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This is awesome!
Plain and simple.
Awesome!
Pastor Chris
EvangelismCoach.org
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kendallmck
Does not believing in something make it *not* exist? If I step in front of a truck and say it doesn’t exist, does that change reality? In order for you to say “there is no God”, you’d have to have the sum total of all the knowledge in the Universe, wouldn’t you??? It’d be like me saying “There is absolutely no gold on Mars”. Can’t say it because I don’t know everything.
So, again, I ask you “Do you believe yourself to be a good person?”
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this is to kendallmck. yes you are right, oh the word battle, the thisaway thataway endless futile… you get me. it all comes down to belief doesn’t it. uhu. well hey just to let you know how much of a fallible ego-seeking christian i am, why don’t you check my blog and see if there is anything to enlighten you there – I would be grateful for the feedback, it does my ego the world of good.
all the best,
ben
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Tim Brown asked me if I would considered myself to be a “good person”.
My answer – Yes.
As for NW Prodigal, I generally don’t get into discussions with Christians who actually think there is any substance to the accusation “Perhaps you never truly believed”. We really have nothing to discuss if I KNOW I once believed, and you KNOW I didn’t.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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Bob:
So, you’d say you are a “good person”. According to what standard?
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We all have an opportunity to accept or reject Jesus Christ as the way. Believe or not, the opportunity exist.
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Chris I thank you for babtizing my dad last sunday. I know I will soon lose him but at least I know he is going to HEAVEN. It has changed him in so many ways and now he’s not afraid of dying. He has a lite that shines within him I have never seen before. Losing my sweet and dear mother last year he made this comment to me, ( Your mama will probably fuss at me when I get up there). Thank you for bringing him the new bible. Everytime he goes to sleep I take it off chest and set it on his table. You are a man with a true Blessing. Sincerely, Don
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Tim, ask anyone who knows me, Christian or none. They’ll say I am a “good person”.
Listen, this tactic is not foreign to me. I know human standards change. What may have been considered “good” 300 years ago (slave ownership, beating your kids with a stick, etc) are not considered good today. Just as people at your church don’t stone members who break the sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Standards change. But I think you and I can agree on what is good and what is bad. buying groceries for a poor widow woman would be good, agree? Swindling money from a poor widow woman would be bad, agree? It’s not that hard. But if you are going to introduce the bible as the standard for what we should consider to be good or bad, please don’t. I do not consider the bible to be worthy of emulating. It is full of what I, as a “good person”, would consider to be very, very bad behaviour, on the part of God and his followers.
And I will not consider “sin” either. In the past, I have committed wrongs. I have done and said things hurtful for selfish reasons. I feel bad for that and have always tried to make amends, but “sin” is a religious term that I do not subscribe to. Biblical “sins” are generally acts which offend the biblical God, whom I do not believe exists. And apparently, picking up sticks on a certain day was so offensive to YOUR God that the offender deserved death. In light of that, you can keep your “standard”, I’ll keep mine.
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Good, you feel bad! That would be your conscience speaking. Con = with, Science = knowlege. So you know that what you have done in the past is wrong. You didn’t need anyone to tell you that, did you? Where did that come from?
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Good! Your conscience is telling you that you’ve “done wrong” (sinned). Con = “with”, science = “knowledge”. So, you know that you’ve done things that are wrong. Where do you think that comes from?
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Tim, why do you persist? This is rather pedestrian. Why don’t you just tell me where you think it comes from. Just get to the point, (which I already know). I have seen the Kirk Cameron and what’s-his-name videos on youtube many months ago. Honestly, it did absolutely nothing for me.
I don’t mean to be rude. I just get impatient when people use “tactics” on me. I would much rather openly and honestly discuss our differences than have someone attempt to lead me like a child. Did you not read my comment above where I stated I was a bible believer for 25 years? Don’t you think I might remember some, if not most of what I believed and why?
It is obvious that you have completely disregarded everything I said in my thoughtful responses above, because you have absolutely nothing to say in response. All you do is, as it seems, move from each step, 1, 2, 3, and ask another leading question. That shows me that do not have enough respect for me, as a person, to actually comment on my comments. I write a paragraph, you ignore it and write a sentence. All you have succeeded in doing is making me feel as if my comments are not worth considering by you. Am I surprised?, no. This is what I get from the vast majority of believers I come in contact with on the web. If they are not insulting me outright, they do it by just ignoring what I have to say. I get that attitude from ministers to laymen.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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I persist because I care about you. You have admitted that you have sinned. We all have. I have. I’m not pointing a finger at you, I am a sinner too!
You say you want an honest discussion, but you don’t want me to mention the Bible. That doesn’t sound very honest.
Here’s an honest question: You say you are an atheist. In other words “No God”. In order to say that, wouldn’t you have to have the sum total of all knowledge? To compare, what would you think of me if I said “There is absolutely no gold on Mars”? Wouldn’t you think I didn’t have enough knowledge of Mars to say that? Yet you say that here is “no God”….
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Chris,
God is so good!!!! This is an awesome testimony, if I had the time I would add to Pete’s story. You see Pete is my dad. I have prayed for him for years, this is proof that God answers prayer. If we are faithful and stand firm in our beliefs, God will do his part. I was in church with dad on February the 10th, it was great to see him in God’s house. I know that God has a plan for each and every one of us, talk to him, and when he talks back to you, listen. Chris, Thanks for taking your time with my dad……
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Tim, you seem to be ignoring what I actually have said. I absolutely have not admitted that I have “sinned”. I admitted that I have done wrong, in my eyes, and probably in the eyes of those I did wrong against. I do not admit to doing anything wrong (sinning) against any God, because I do not believe any God exists. So for you to say I have admitted that I have sinned is dishonest on your part because I went to great lengths to denounce that religious term. I have never “sinned”. I am not a “sinner”. I don’t know how to make it any clearer. (But to be clear, you are right to a point. When I became a Christian, many years ago, at that time I admitted that I was a sinner, that I had sinned, and held that belief for the next 25 years)
As for not wanting you to mention the bible, where did I say that? I have no problem with anyone quoting from the bible, but the quoter must understand that I, as a non believer, do not consider the bible to have any authority over me. But please, feel free to quote from the bible all you want, just be prepared to have me critique the quotes. But I must ask, even if I did say that I didn’t want you to mention the bible, how would that be dishonest of me? I don’t get that at all.
As for atheists claiming that there is “No God”, I disagree. I do not think very many atheists actually claim that they know that there is absolutely no God anywhere. As for myself, I simply state that, based on the available evidence, and from my own observations during my life, I have concluded that there is no God. But just like any honest observer, I am open to persuasion, based on scientific and historical evidence. So, I do not, as you say, claim that there is no God. I simply have concluded, for now, that I do not believe there is any God.
Now, if you think that means I am agnostic, fine. Feel free to label me as you please, but if anyone asks me what I am, concerning religion, I say I am an atheist.
Can I ask you a question? – Can you give me one, and only one “reason” why I should become a Christian? Only one, and make it the most important reason please.
In case anyone is curious how or why an atheist came here to comment, my girlfriend is a Christian. I used to go to church with her every Sunday, even though I am an atheist. I went for about a year. I went for one reason: if I was going to get to spend time with her on Sunday, I would have to go to church. I stopped because I felt it was not fair for me, in our relationship, to have to sit in church every single Sunday if I wanted to spend time with her. She still goes….I go off and enjoy my Sundays alone now.
Anyway, her pastor has a website, and I visit it from time to time just to see what he has preached about. He had a link to this blog, so I visited and commented. That’s it.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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“Now, if you think that means I am agnostic, fine. Feel free to label me as you please, but if anyone asks me what I am, concerning religion, I say I am an atheist.
Can I ask you a question? – Can you give me one, and only one “reason” why I should become a Christian? Only one, and make it the most important reason please.”
Ok, you’re an agnostic, which means you “don’t know” (a = not, gnosis = to know). You called yourself an atheist, that literally means “No God”. I would suggest that for you to say you are an “atheist” then, is not accurate.
You ask “why should you become a Christian”. That is a good question. I could simply say what you probably expect me to say and that is “To stay out of Hell”. But that isn’t the ultimate reason. The ultimate reason is that honoring the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on your behalf would glorify God. It would glorify him forever, and that is what you were created for.
There is a “gospel” out there that doesn’t convert anyone. Becoming a Christian is a literal rebirth. It isn’t just saying you agree with something about Jesus and then praying a prayer. That is not the gospel. I know you don’t like to hear that your conversion may not have been genuine, but I have been there. What I have is real now. It shows itself as real by the changes in my life. And it is lasting. Paul said in Philippians that “He that began a good work in you WILL CONTINUE TO PERFORM IT until the day of Jesus Christ”. If it doesn’t last, it wasn’t real. In 1 John, the apostle John says “They went out from us (defected) because they weren’t of us”. That is a false conversion. Get angry if you want. Deny it if you want. That isn’t me making the judgment call, but God’s Word.
Just before my conversion 10 years ago, and after I “fell away”, I would have been angry at anyone who said I wasn’t a genuine Christian. But I wasn’t. I know that now. And perhaps God let me go through that for such a time as this where I can share that with you. But there are false converts. They are all over the place.
I would warn you most strongly, Bob, to repent of your unbelief. Once you know the true Gospel (you have heard Way of the Master) and decide to reject it, there comes a time when God’s gavel falls and you are confirmed in your unbelief and there is no turning back.
God WILL judge you and the Ten Commandments are His standard. He will look at you from “His side of the bench” and find you have broken all ten of them (Not keeping God in first place, worshiping a god of your own making (idolatry), Taking his name in vain, not honoring your parents (ever disobeyed them or caused them shame?), murder (Jesus said even hating someone is the same as murder, in the heart), Adultery? (Jesus said lust is the same as adultery), Stolen (regardless of how small the object or how long ago?), lied?, Coveted?
If you have ever broken one bit of any of those commandments, God will find you guilty. And you can’t pay the penalty yourself and go free. You will be condemned forever. But Jesus paid it for you by bearing the penalty of God’s wrath for you. And the only way to “pass the test” on judgment day is to have the righteousness of Jesus Christ credited to your account.
You say you “don’t know” if there is a God. God wants you to trust Him. Hebrews says that “those who come to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him”. For “without faith, it is impossible to please God”. Do you want proof? There is no faith where proof is present.
But you have said you’d listen to historical evidence. Ok, read Pliny the Younger. read Josephus, read Tacitus, read the evidence from the Babylonian Talmud, Read Lucian. These are all SECULAR sources that testify to the life of Jesus. Also, read the BIBLE. Yes, I said the BIBLE. Archeology has confirmed the accuracy of the scriptures, not contradicted it. People have been converted to Christianity as a result of trying to DISPROVE it. Read Luke. The first verses tell you it was written so “you can be sure” of what happened when Jesus walked here. Luke said “it seemed good to me also, following all things accurately from the very first, to write to you in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you might know the certainty of those things in which you have been instructed.”
Luke wrote his Gospel as an historical account, so we may be sure of what we have learned. That was his whole purpose!
Again, you’ve heard the Gospel. You know the facts. My prayer for you, in all sincerity Bob, is that you will take my warning to heart.
I can do no more for you than that. No test tubes, nothing. You know the Gospel. You’ve heard Way of the Master. I pray that the Lord will open the eyes of your heart that you may see what you are rejecting, as He did me so many years ago.
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Tim, I appreciate your comments, I really do. It would take so much time to comment on them in detail, as I would like to, but I know you have other more pressing things to do with your day, as do I.
Let me just make a few comments, then, if you would like me to, I would be glad to carry our dialogue over to email, but if you feel we are at a stopping point, we can just call it quits here. I just don’t want to continue taking up space here at a blog.
We will probably disagree on the definitions of atheist. I think “A” theist means no belief in God, or without belief, not, as some Christians like to label me, “one who thinks he knows there is no God”.
As for “Why should I become a Christian”? I honestly had no idea what reason you would give. That is the first time I have ever asked a Christian that question.
Nothing you have said makes me “angry.” I usually don’t get angry while dialoguing with people. I may get impatient, discouraged, or hurt, but I stay pretty much calm. I took no offence in anything you said above. I just think you are mistaken in much of it. But, as I said, we can just leave it at that if you want, or feel free to email me what you posted above and I will dedicate some time over the next week responding.
Thanks for your time.
bob
lets_reason@yahoo.com
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this is to tim. hi there, i am a christian and have just read the 2 blog entries above this. they are very interesting. i just checked your blog too. lot of stuff on there, i liked some of the pics. would you care to offer your thoughts on my blog? I would value them. I am an artist and writer and have a different but uncompromising take on presenting the message and expressing my faith. i have arty vids on youtube too, one of which is linked on the blog. Forgive me if this seems a bit self-indulgent
regards,
ben
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Chris…thanks for making me cry today. Great stuff…adam
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This is the reason why the altar call is so important! How in the world can Pastors stand in front of thousands of persons, give an inspiring message and then at the end, Say Okay…Have a nice day everyone! Go across the hall if you want to learn how to be a Christian. Check us at the front desk? Check the card and pass it to the Usher as the basket comes by. The confrontation must begin at the time the heart is being moved upon by the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is always wooing and prompting. Never let an opportunity go by without offering an opportunity for salvation. Who knows..Kendallmck may be in the audience.
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Great Article I am new to your blog, but I found this story very good,
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now, you guys are all mind slaves….bloody hell, yeh lets glorify jesus…..hey i dont need to hes already got all you morans tounging his ass anyway.
yeh ok ill just commit genocide and then start believing int he man upstairs and he will give me an all access vip tikket to heaven…shut the hell up stop taking twisted people into your ranks….you guys are the ones trying to get sexualy abused people a time limit to report their case of its not heard.
You guys are all fucking sinners…go touch up some kids some more you tards
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